LFF Ep. 002: IZMA, Developer of Deadeus

Join us for another episode of Low Five Friends as we venture into the dark, pixelated world of gaming with Adam Birch, also known as -IZMA-. This session, we unravel the eerie layers of Deadeus, a horror game ingeniously crafted for the classic Game Boy.

Hear from Adam about the artistic and gaming influences that shaped Deadeus, the technical challenges of Game Boy development, and the surprising journey to indie gaming acclaim. We'll also get a glimpse into Adam's broader creative pursuits and his future plans in game development.

Discover the chilling narrative of Deadeus for yourself—available for free on Itch.io. You can also purchase a physical copy from incube8 Games.

Music for this episode provided by Stoo Bubsy, featuring the tracks "Introduction" and "Gift of Life (Ode to Deadeus)." You can buy Deadeus Original Soundtrack by Stoo Bubsy on bandcamp.

Transcript

Alex: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Low-Fi Friends, a companion podcast of Lo-Fi Gaming. The fellow I'm talking to today is a special guest, adam Birch, known to many in the gaming and art communities as Isma, probably best known for the horror game boy game, deadius. Thank you, excited to be talking to you, man. Like I was saying it's, it's been kind of cool like being able to kind of watch some of your artistic journey, kind of watch the game grow over the last few years and it was really fun for me to. I host low five gaming with my brother, luke and we played, played your game recently and have a mainline episode coming out and then as well. But it's just, it's just like a rad, rad thing, man.

Alex: 1:18

It's rad to uh, to have played it has played it twice, you know or to come up more than twice, I guess but to come, come around and kind of like I was saying see, it's it's growth and it's staying power, it's it's it's impressive, dude, and it's. It's funny to me to hear you know I was doing some reading prior to our talk and then also to just hear you say that it was. It was almost accidental in a way, like not accidental in the sense that, like you know, it wasn't deserving, but it's. It's interesting to hear that. You know something that I would say is like it's, you know, it's a top tier, like, uh, indie game boy, like you know, for the folks making game boy games, and in today's age, this is going to come at the top of everybody's list. Like it's, it's right up there, man, which is which is cool.

IZMA: 1:59

I think it's super cool it really does mean so much, uh, to hear people say that and and you know that people still enjoy it. Uh, I'm really happy to be here and talk with you as well. I I love talking about this sort of stuff and I'm always happy to do uh, uh things like this yeah it's.

IZMA: 2:16

It's kind of crazy to see that it keeps going like every now and then I like uh, there's a youtube channel I like with triple jump, which is I've just been a fan of for ages, and uh, they talked about it the other day and it it's almost like it jumpscares me, you know. Oh, okay, there it is again.

Alex: 2:34

Um that's pretty rad. One of my, one of my buddies, uh Keith he was. He used to run a podcast called the main quest podcast and he's super into horror games and and you know, retro games. He ran a retro video game podcast and he I can't remember the name of the publisher right now. But there's this really cool company that does like uh, their coffee table books essentially, and they do these big compilations or of like the n64, the game boy or whatever, and he was. He was uh reading this big one on horror games that was put out not too long ago. You probably you, I mean, you were in. It is what I'm driving at, so it's uh which is cool, man.

IZMA: 3:08

Yeah, the bit my book stuff. Um, that was a really nice surprise as well. And you know, as you've seen it, that book is insane. It is like if you dropped it on someone you do some serious damage, uh, and it is full cover to cover of you know, the best of the best of horror games and even have been asked right a lot to me. You know like, yeah, you know, my thing is still it's just baby itchio thing involved.

Alex: 3:35

It really does mean a lot, you know yeah, I was reading um and we don't have to like go super into your numbers, everything but I was like I was listening to a podcast you did a while ago. Uh, you had mentioned and this, this was, I think, right on the verge of you putting the game on a physical cart and I think your itchio numbers were like 10,000 downloads or something and it's been. I bet you that's skyrocketed. I bet you that's.

IZMA: 3:57

It has and it's been the most successful thing I've ever done.

Alex: 4:12

Yeah, but you're still young man, you got time too. God, I'm not that young. Yeah, we got, we got plenty of time, bro, uh. So I'm curious though. So I mean, you know from what I what I learned is that you may be. So you created deadius as part of a um, a game jam, so it kind of came like naturally out of that, uh. But I'm curious, I'd love to know a little bit more just about your, your relationship with with gaming and like what games like? Are you a gamer, do you play games, or are you just making games like how does that work?

IZMA: 4:32

oh yeah, yeah, I uh it's like one of my deepest passions. It's always been since I was a little kid. I think you know that's a story for a lot of people, you know. But, uh, I just for as long as I I've been about, I just wanted to make games. You know, and for a long time I wasn't making games like it was like I could draw pictures, and then, you know, I didn't uh get into the games industry for about like 2014, 15 ish okay yeah, uh, so about 10 years now, but I mean that's, that's later in life, for sure, uh for me uh

IZMA: 5:05

sure, but yeah, it's, it's uh, it's a huge part of my life, like I, I love it as a medium. I love the kind of uh, the massive wave of indie right now, like we had that first big wave, uh, around the xbox 360 with the live arcade really opening up and obviously steam and itch and it's just growing and growing and growing and we're in like this really cool time where I feel like it's the same thing for, like, art, books, music, like there's these avenues for anything creative and it's it really is the biggest it's ever been right now and it's only going to get bigger. Yeah, it's really cool to be a little piece for you know yeah, I would, uh, I don't know how.

Alex: 5:42

I mean, obviously I'm a podcaster so I must love it if I'm spending my time talking about these things. But I guess I'm a connoisseur of sorts it's a weird term to give to yourself but I've always enjoyed video games, ever since I was a little kid and eventually wore my parents down or snuck them into the house in one way or another house in one way or another. And that's actually probably where my love for game boy comes from is. It was the first actual system like gaming system that I had, aside from I don't know if you're familiar with, like the tiger electronics, like little lcd screen deals. I had a couple, a couple of those.

Alex: 6:14

But um, the game boy was like that, was like oh man, this is great and it's not something that my parents bought for me, that I bought with my own money. It was something that, like, by the time I got a hold of one, it was like some homies in the neighborhood or whatever, like we're like sure you could play with my old toy, like you know, but it was great and I think that, like, deep down, that's probably fueled a lot of my, my love for game boy and now as an adult, it's it's fun to see, it's almost like a full circle thing where these there's these new games bringing new life into this thing and it's it's fun. But I'm I'm interested. From my understanding, you kind of fell into creating videos for you know, out of this game jam and then on the game boy, because of game boy or GB studio, which is like a cool platform for creating game boy games within, and you're kind of at the forefront of like jumping on that platform from my understanding.

Alex: 7:02

But I'm curious, before we talk more about that, like jumping on that platform from my understanding, but I'm curious before we talk more about that. Just, uh, your history with the game boy, you know, you take my story. It's like, well, I just love the game boy so much I I'm gonna create this game boy game which I did. Go look at gb studio. Dude, it's not as easy as they make it sound on their website well, I'd be happy to help anytime you fancy it.

IZMA: 7:20

After this right on um, yeah, I so I. I never. I don't think I ever had a dmg one as a kid like the original original game boy. But every time um toy day you're in the us, right I am, yeah, yeah, in the uk we had like toy day, uh, one day of every I don't know term in primary school, little little school okay, one of the kids would bring in their Game Boy and I remember playing like the Star Wars game and Kirby the Kirby and just loving it.

IZMA: 7:51

But I didn't actually get a Game Boy till my lime green Game Boy color. Oh cool yeah, I was, like you know, pokemon Blue, pokemon Yellow, pokemon Silver and that was like tunnel vision on that and it more spiraled out from the game with color.

IZMA: 8:07

End of things which I think, I think would surprise a lot of people looking at all this um. But right from the beginning there was a. You know, even seeing that original it was like a mythical thing, you know, like there's always one kid that had one and uh, whenever I could, I always tried to get a go on it. Unfortunately, as a young'un, I never had one. I've got one now in my collection and I love it to pieces I've got several now thanks to all this craziness, I bet.

Alex: 8:35

It's cool, man. We live in a cool time too, with the whole modding scene around the Game Boys and these beautiful screens. I still have that DMG. To be honest, I don't even know how it ended up in my. I'm like I don't remember which friend is the one that was like yeah, you can have my old game boy, uh, which is a little. I should try and figure that out, but, um, I still have it and there's like the, you know, with screen degradation and everything.

Alex: 8:56

It just doesn't like. It doesn't. It's not as fun to like actually play it. It's a cool like relic, it a cool piece to have in my collection. But I have other newer Game Boys or other cool platforms to play these old games now too. And man having a backlit screen or one of those being able to see these games pixel perfect, it's a super nerdy thing but I love it, man, it's so cool.

IZMA: 9:19

I'm right there with you. It's so good to be able to go back and see these games in a whole new way. I've been lucky enough to be sent it for you and I've got one that's like a green light on the back and then black and white over the top so you can cycle through colors. And they sent me a modified Game Boy to look like Dead Ears. So black and green with the green light. It's such a cool way to see all these games again. You know, like that, um, yeah, it's, it's a really, really cool time for that. Like it's almost at a point now where you see it's more common to see a modded game boy than not a modded game boy. You know, right, like, uh, gaming markets and stuff. You see like rows and rows of them. I love the uh standard gray and I've still, like I said, I've got one here, but seeing all the craziness with the customization stuff is really really cool. And then, like going as far, going as far as like the analog pocket and seeing what they've done with the screen.

Alex: 10:13

Yeah, I was. I was lucky to get a the first run of analog pockets. That's where I most of my like actual like playing game boy games, is that now?

IZMA: 10:26

and the screen on that? Bad boy, it's ridiculous. Like, uh, I can't say enough nice things.

Alex: 10:29

I, I've played a lot of these sort of like emulator systems and all this and there's just even in the the nice modded sorry, I'm pointing at my game but even in the nice uh, modded um the nice spotted screens, as amazing as they are, nothing, nothing's touching right pocket right now and, uh, I'm a big shader user, so, like I love the shaders that are included in the analog pocket and for the most recent playthrough of your game, I actually switched all the way over to the. I forget what they call it, it's like a pinball. I don't remember what they call it, but it's the red. And black.

IZMA: 10:58

Oh yeah, the Matrix. Yeah, you got it.

Alex: 11:05

And that was a really nice look for, for, you know, for a horror game especially, I think it's supposed to mimic, like the um, the virtual boy the virtual boy I.

IZMA: 11:11

I always thought it's like um I that that's a good shout.

Alex: 11:16

The uh, those pimples, the old pimple screen ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes more sense actually, hence the naming of the Beatle Matrix, or whatever.

IZMA: 11:27

This might be a tangent, but it's on my mind. I haven't got a way of doing it right now, but I saw that there's a Virtual Boy emulator for the 3DS now.

Alex: 11:34

Oh, cool, yeah, right on.

IZMA: 11:37

The Virtual Boy never came out in this country and I've played one for about five minutes when I lived in the States, but I've not properly dug in on it. And they are so cool and to see that someone's modified a 3ds to that, I um, this is like sort of. This month I found out about this and I really want to chase that down, yeah.

Alex: 11:57

I haven't seen that yet, so I'll have to look into that as well. Like virtual boy is like a homebrew kind of thing. Okay, cool, cool, but it looked cool. Yeah, virtual boy is one of those things that, like I did get the opportunity I think one of my buddies rented one way back when and he brought it over and we played it and got some headaches, but like no, it's. But it is such like it's just nintendo kind of being ahead of their time and doing some fun stuff. Uh, it's um it's.

IZMA: 12:22

It's almost alien to right because, like I say, it wasn't really a thing in the uk. And so, um, my partner's, uh, brother's, got one that's how I've seen one now at all and just to see it on the desk it's like what is, what is this? And the controller? I really like the controller. Uh, right, double d-pad the thing, uh, and you know, I keep seeing a really cool game show. I think it's like horror first person dungeon crawler type thing. I'm now, yeah, a wario game on it and then like a mech sort of beam up yeah yeah, all of it looks so cool.

IZMA: 12:53

I really want to dig in on that now.

Alex: 12:55

Then it is, it is dope. So I'm curious, you know we've talked a little bit about the, the game boy stuff and you know the virtual boy and so you, you mentioned you've always had a passion for gaming. I'm curious, if you I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit and I'm going to go with five, which is a kind of a big. It's a big number for your, your top fives, but if you had a list off just top five games of all time, what would yours be?

Alex: 13:15

oh, that's a tough one um and they'd be personal too, not as, uh, it doesn't have to be like what the you know everybody would say.

IZMA: 13:22

I'm curious to the I'm curious to know what yours are. Yeah, um, you know, I always think it's better to go with your personal choice anyway, you know, rather than the objective one, and my, my number one is always, always going to be, uh, resident one, the original okay, cool you know the gamecube remix really, really good, but I mean the base, base version, yeah, uh, it was the first game I ever saw as a kid that didn't have levels.

IZMA: 13:48

Uh, it was just like one long adventure and I mean it wasn't the first to do that. I know now looking back on it, but it was the first one I ever saw and uh scared me for years. But it was such a, at the time, different game to anything I'd seen which as a kid, was like mario and sonic.

IZMA: 14:07

You know things like that bug on the sega saturn cockat night, um, and then this nightmare game for a young'un uh came out and everything was different, you know right um, and in the years since, like, obviously the whole franchise means a great deal to me now, as it does to so many people, and most people would say Resident Evil 2 is their favorite, some 4, and now the remakes and all that, but the original one to me is still so perfect. I really love how it's designed. I know it feels like people always make fun of like the uh, the voice acting or the? Um, you know, it's just uh, it's, it's a lot simpler.

IZMA: 14:47

Oh, the basement theme, sorry I thought that my brain, the crazy music, um. But I really love how that game is like, quite like a simple small space, it's a house and it slowly opens up over time, like you find a key and it opens two more rooms, you know and then it's like puzzle box. Uh. And yeah, there's other areas of course in the house, but that idea of having a fixed space that slowly unravels over time, um, it's directly what inspired edius, you know uh, having a small, the small area that you can eventually do more with.

IZMA: 15:21

I have completed that game more times than I can tell you. I just, I absolutely love it. So number one, always, always, always, that one. Outside of that, I really love the game Fez. I don't know.

Alex: 15:34

These are out of order now. Yeah, no worries.

IZMA: 15:40

And going across like not just retro. I really love Fez. I really love a little indie game called Lisa the Painful my favourite games ever. It's like both the funniest and saddest game ever made. I think there's too many. I don't know which of the Souls games to pick, but it's probably Dark Souls, I think, touch and go between that and Bloodborne. And let's go with a Game Boy game for the sake of the conversation. Mario Land 2, if I had to pick one from the platform, is probably my big one. It certainly is the Game Boy game I've probably finished the most amount of times. I think it's the best looking, one of the best looking Game Boy games I've probably finished the most amount of times. I think it's the best looking, one of the best looking Game Boy games. I love that game to pieces it is great.

Alex: 16:29

It's funny. I broke co-host and brother Luke into playing that one for the pod because it's an important game in my gaming zeitgeist, you know, with the Game Boy and everything, and at first he kind of grumbled. He's like, oh man, why are you playing this old shit? But he, like he came around to it, you know, which is cool, because it is like it is a great game on that platform. Uh, I will say that the the final castle, like wario's castle.

IZMA: 16:52

Pretty hard dude oh yeah, it's a nightmare. I, uh, I can't. It wasn't that long ago. I was gonna say I can't remember when it was, but I went back to it again recently because I I I'm a little less knowledgeable about the warrior land stuff. I played a lot of them. I finished four a ton of times, but I don't want to play the.

IZMA: 17:08

You know one, two and three, a lot more. And so I was like, well, I'll go through the whole franchise, um, but you're, you're right on it's. Uh, it's a bit of a nightmare that last, but for sure it is.

Alex: 17:19

It's like it. The difficulty spike is it's jarring's like oh man, how did this get so hard? But I don't know. It's fun, I'm into it. It's still one of my favorites.

IZMA: 17:30

Yeah, everything in that game is so big and noticeably, even now the sprites are huge that warrior sprite at the end, weird warrior balls, everything is so big and bright and full of character. You compare it to Super Mario Land 1. You know is debatably unfair, right, like how tiny the sprite is and not compared to the insane jump in just the sequel right, I think it's interesting too.

Alex: 17:55

In super mario land too, like you, you're right on with. The sprites are being so, they're so large and it. But it just works like whatever they did with the, how they contained everything in the screen. It works really well. So I think it's like the game boy color. It's super mario, super mario brothers dx or whatever they call it. So it's like the, the port of the original super mario brothers game and that, like it, just doesn't work as well with the square screen, like it's you know because everything's kind of like blown up and it's just like you can't see everything that's going on.

Alex: 18:22

But uh, but that's not the case, which is kind of an amazing feat, that they're able to use such large sprites and still have it contained in that area. In super mario land 2, yeah, pretty cool, but uh, so I didn't notice there's a theme, I mean one. You made a horror game. Uh, you, you named off a couple of your, your all-time favorites that are horror games or have horror elements. So I'm yeah, I have to assume that you're a horror fanatic you know, uh, that's all right, I absolutely love it.

IZMA: 18:49

Uh, it's, like in most things, my favorite genre, you know, um yeah we're applicable, yeah and I mean that's definitely present in videos.

Alex: 18:58

So you know you went out and you made a horror game, but I think you picked some like I'd just be. I'd be interested to know about like how that love for the genre like influenced your game. Like I don't want to put words in your mouth, but as I'm playing it I see certain elements.

IZMA: 19:11

So I'm just curious in your words, like how how that passion for horror and your, your love for that genre, uh, really influenced your game yeah, at the time when I was making it, which again was like 2019 I'm hesitant to say it was the first because I don't think it was before I say this but, um, at the time, you know, we were largely dealing with the actual release games and then mostly rom-coms and then some. There were obviously any projects, but there wasn't a lot of horror at the time or like actual horror. There was like sort of uh, you know, themed like there's a frankenstein game and adam's family game, you know, but not anything trying its best to be a a horror game. Uh, and it kind of bummed me out looking at it you know, I was like I want to try and do that or see, see what you can do.

IZMA: 19:58

You know, um, and it's definitely a silly thing, like I'll be the first to admit that like tiny little 160x144 thing is going to struggle to be scary at the best times. I don't know how much I nailed it, but I like the idea of giving it a go, and that was largely a thinking on that. It occurred to me at the time of making it that you had to lean on the writing.

IZMA: 20:26

You know there are certain like um twists and reveals and things like that that I really had to lean on because you don't get a lot of leeway with the visuals. You know it is very simple in the way it looks for most of the game, um, so that was a fun challenge with the medium, for sure, but in terms of inspiration, like, obviously the resident evil one was the biggest one. A lot of people pointed out Zelda. Majora's Mask is an obvious one. I've actually never finished Majora's Mask still to this day, me, neither man.

Alex: 21:00

That's funny.

Alex: 21:01

We had an episode on it recently and I still got to a point where I decided not to finish it. And it's not because I an episode on it recently and I still got to a point, like, where I'd like decided not to finish it. I mean, it's not because I don't love it. I love that game, I love the legend of zelda series, um, but I don't know, I guess, for whatever reason, I'm just not going to push through to the end. I still still. You know this is great, but it's just kind of funny.

IZMA: 21:19

I've uh finished ocarina of time. You know got on everything so many times in the past, but Majora's Mask I've always bounced off it a bit. It's my little brother's favorite game in the franchise as well, so I'm sure he'd tell me off for hearing this. But, yeah, I think it's, you've got to call it out. That idea obviously inspired this Lovecraft. Obviously the thought of this like ever-present being larger than than comprehension, uh, you know, if, if you've ever read any lovecraft you can, you can see it's clear influence all over this thing.

Alex: 21:59

sure, sure, sure yeah, and I think it's interesting you mentioned too and then you know it's I mean in today's world and you know people making things. It's hard to say if it's the first, but it may be maybe if it wasn't the first, but it's definitely at the forefront of you, especially on GB Studio creating games and horror games there, and it's such an interesting platform for that. I think it's evolved over the last couple of years. But especially at the get-go you're limited by what you're able to do in that software gb studio software and it has like a certain, like a lot of the assets that come with that like almost give a pokemon vibe to games, like just because of the, just the way that it looks or whatever, uh, which I think is like an interesting juxtaposition to creating a horror game, to have that like familiar look of these like you know pokemon sprites or the characters anyways, uh, not the pokemon themselves, but the people and that top down, like you know look of going through a town or whatever.

Alex: 22:55

I mean you're still creating but and then and uh, but I think where you really nail it and what's really fun for me to see is the interjection of like I'll just call them cut scenes. I don't know if you can call them a cut scene on a game boy, but like that's where some of your pixel art and some of your illustration really like it really elevates the horror vibe because like something will happen in the game where you know you'll do something and it'll, it'll cut to one of your illustrations, it'll be like a little pan or something like that and it's just like, uh, it's, it's fun to see the game boy pushed to those boundaries, you know. Another thing that I think is is fun around your your comment of being, you know, at the forefront of putting out horror games like it's. I had the opportunity to talk to another indie developer, marco, recently, who did the game Pine Creek, and when he was talking about his inspiration, he actually named you, which is like it's pretty cool

Alex: 23:45

yeah, so it's so like he uh, he tried your game out. You know, I don't know exactly when, but he had the opportunity to play and that was like I think he was. You know, amongst other inspirations as well, but I think it's one of the things that he mentioned like put him on the path of being like this could be something really cool, which is which is another kind of like crazy thing dude like that's a the dead system, and then you have, you know, dead substitutes, yourself like playing these things. You got dudes like me playing your games and then you're you're not, you're not just, you know pulling inspiration from you know, like these game boy games that were made 20, 30 years ago. But you also have folks that, like your game came out in 2019, as you say, I mean like almost immediately had an impact on another artist and another developer, which is kind of a cool thing man, yeah, I, I didn't know that.

IZMA: 24:30

Uh, I love you know, the loveliest thing in the world to hear because my freak's pretty cool, you know.

IZMA: 24:36

So, um, yeah, I guess it. It's been really, really cool to see the explosion of gbcdo, like you know. Uh, there's a ton of stuff now and I look at almost all of it now and I'm like man, I can't keep up to any of this. I don't know what I'm gonna do next. Like there are geniuses working on it now and, uh, it's really like amazing to see for sure.

IZMA: 25:02

Like, especially, you know, I've spoken to some people who are a little bit like, oh, it's a game boy game and it's, like, you know, games, the game is the game. You know, people are putting work and effort into these things and to see it sort of rapidly take off, you know, publishers starting to crop up left and right and it's, it's all gaining like a bit of legitimacy. Like I no point in my brain did I stop and think, oh, I'll make this physical one day, because I mean, at the time I made it, I didn't think that was a thing to do, even. Um, yeah, it's changed so rapidly and in such a good and big way. You know, it's a terrifying thought to try and keep up with it.

Alex: 25:41

Sure.

IZMA: 25:43

Yeah.

Alex: 25:44

And I was. I don't know if it was one of the interviews I was reading that you were in, or perhaps it was the. You were on a different podcast a while back and you were talking about. One of the reasons that you took this particular game in the direction you did is you were somewhat limited to, uh, you know what GB studio could do and you're mentioning that.

Alex: 26:01

You know GB studio has, like, really it's expanded and what the you know what, what's what, you know what the capabilities are, um, but it's interesting to hear you talk a little bit about, like the, the growth and the, the audience growth, and I think that's been a natural thing. Uh, but an interesting thing that I picked up from just, you know, doing a little bit of background research, is that there was a time a few years back where you were, you were asked about a sequel. I think that's you know, folks always want a sequel to something that has, you know, some success, and you you had mentioned I don't want to put words in your mouth, I'll paraphrase though you had mentioned that you were interested in possibly approaching bringing this game to the 3D realm to give it to a wider audience, and I'm wondering if that's something that you're still working on or still playing around with that idea.

IZMA: 26:48

The idea is always in my head. My day job I work in Unreal Engine. I'm still very early on in Unreal Engine, but it's a 3D engine, obviously, and I always think about in my head Dead Ears 2 is a 3D game and has always been a 3D game and I think about, if I make the sequel to a game in 3d, it's just to most people has just cropped out of nowhere. You know, like more people have not played the game boy game than have you know. It's always bothered me to think that like a lot of people would have missed out on that first piece. So I always think about remaking that first one, because I've got the whole framework there in 3d, uh, and that's not necessarily say pixel art.

IZMA: 27:35

I I would still need to spend some time working out the style, but I like the idea of bringing it into the 3d realm and then making the sequel, uh. So that's been on my mind a lot and that was the thinking for a long time and you know we haven't had a sequel because of that being in my brain. Uh, and at my last studio, um, one of the teammates played the first game and you know I was talking to them about it and they were lovely about it and they went well, why don't you just make the sequel on game boy? And I was like, weirdly enough, that thought never crossed my mind. Oh yeah, damn, maybe I should do that, uh, so that's on my mind a lot now as well, like maybe doing, uh, I think it would be a game with color sequel, because right the sequels.

IZMA: 28:22

It's all done and written. I I know what it is. It's just a case of making it uh I said in interviews in the past, like the sequel was actually written way, way, way before that first one. Um, it's just a case of doing it and right now it's sort of like blocked by a few other things, but I would love to jump on that game boy color version and make it yeah, I love that.

Alex: 28:45

That was something that I was reading too is that you know you've had it's almost like this idea you had for videos like it. You fit it into like the you know out of the game jam. You're like, okay, I'm going to take this idea you had for videos like it, you fit it into like the you know out of the game jam. You're like, okay, I'm going to take this idea that I have and I'm going to kind of mold it into this game boy game, which, which obviously worked. But I'm curious, like is it? You know, do you have aspirations to to bring that story that you know is, is, is in your mind, uh, outside of the game boy realm, even outside of the, uh, the video game, even outside?

IZMA: 29:14

of the video game. Realm Illustration has been my biggest thing, arguably bigger than games all my life. It's what I went to school for. I always wanted to be a comic book artist. The story was always planned to be a comic. The thinking was that all these stories would spiral off from Dead Eos being the central character. You know like how it affected all these other characters. And the reason that that Game Boy piece sliced off so easily is because it was one of the littler stories you know.

IZMA: 29:45

And that always was the case. So it's always on my mind of how best to do this next. You know, the thought of it being a comic has sort of died off a little bit more with the success of the game. It seems easier for me to write and create a game than it is to I don't know why but write and draw a comic. I don't know how to explain that, but that is the case.

Alex: 30:11

I mentioned my love for the the zelda franchise, you know, not too long ago and it's one of those like I do think that, like I don't know you're talking about this just kind of sparks this like um, like I think it, I think something like this idea and especially with your, your illustration, like prowess I know you mentioned, like it's easier for you to like imagine this into the game.

Alex: 30:32

And I bring up zel Zelda, because there's been so much artwork and so much media that's been built around that concept and like I think that that, like I could see that being something that you could pursue at some point whenever you are ready for it, like to have like a graphic novel, that or something like that that works off of this. Um, you know, this idea, this story, which I just think is cool Because it's one of those things where I wouldn't say at first glance that I would notice this game in itself. This story is maybe a slice of this greater idea, but you saying that there's so much you could do with that, I'm excited to see what could become and what will become of the project and it's kind of an exciting thing for me to hear that this is just a sliver of the greater idea that maybe has been kicked around in your brain for a long time yeah, uh, for the last, I think I've done five of them now.

IZMA: 31:21

Uh, inktober comes around every year during every day of the month of september and the last, um, the last few have all been tied to Delius. Like 5% of it is the Game Boy game stuff that people have seen it's. All these illustrations it's half me getting to the edge of the diving board and being like what, drawing all this stuff in the characters are always right there in my head of just. I just need to get and do it. Like I say, there's a few things blocking the sequel at the minute, uh, and I'm sort of diverting that into other gaming stuff at the minute. But uh, I think it'll come one day right on, I think it's.

Alex: 32:05

It's interesting too, like just going through your background and stuff, and I don't know how much you're working on it now, but at least not too long ago you were working on some vr stuff, correct?

IZMA: 32:14

yeah, that was um. So I worked with code sync, another studio here in the uk, and they are primarily a vr studio. So there was, uh, the quest game, drastic world aftermath that we worked on over there. I was a ui artist on that and there's a few other similar projects I thought it came out of them that I had hand on. Vr is one of those things that I think that and there's a few other similar projects that came out of them that I had hands on.

Alex: 32:34

VR is one of those things that I think that like as a platform, it's suited really well for horror and I'm sure like translating this game into a VR world. Like that's a can of worms, I'm sure, but it's another place where it's like when I was kind of looking through and playing this game and kind of learning more about you, know your, your background, like man, could you imagine like a horror game like like this, like in, like as a vr adventure? That'd be nuts. I know like there's some like with vr itself, like is it going to catch on to the mainstream? I don't know, I like I don't. I don't personally have the vr set, but like I do think that it's a matter of time before it's in more households and it's just like there's something about the horror genre that like I think suits itself very well for for that I mean, a lot of folks probably won't try because it may be too scary.

IZMA: 33:20

But it goes right back to like the early days of it, like um. I remember like the first sort of vr thing that came to my household was um google cardboard, which was like oh yes, I think the earliest version, you know, and even that when I came out a lot of the games, of horror games, you know, uh, I, I think you're exactly right, you know, it lends itself so much like being immersed in it. It's like shooting games and horror games are like the top two.

Alex: 33:43

It feels like you know it's a story that a lot of developers have is, uh, there's scope creep.

Alex: 33:48

So it's like you know, you have this idea, you're working on it and then you're like, like I said, with the vr stuff, almost like, no matter the platform, that's always a can of worms.

Alex: 33:55

It's like the next thing, the next thing. But I'm wondering, like beyond, you know, scope can be one of them, but I'm wondering if there's any other challenges that you face, like because obviously you took this beyond your game jam. I think there was like a 30-day thing, uh, and then you know it took more time and then, with the inherent difficulties of making sure that it was being good to go for for a physical release, like I'm just wondering if some of the other things that you ran into and then basically how you overcame and pushed through and got it to where it is today, which is beyond a physical release, multiple releases, and then there's also part of this is probably because of your fantastic work as an illustrator. There's some really cool collector's editions. I guess the question is, can you tell me about that path? How did you push through some of these challenges to get it to where the game is today?

IZMA: 34:49

I've always said and this isn't the best advice before I say it but if you want to find out what's wrong with a thing, the fastest way you'll find out is by putting it on the internet. So many messages of like, hey, this, this and this is broken, and obviously I wouldn't suggest just chuck your thing online and have it torn to pieces. But it kind of goes back to what I was saying of it being. You know, the fact that I chucked it up in such a bad initial state is just a testament as much as any that I didn't expect anyone to even play it, you know, uh. And then, as I was hearing stuff come in, because I didn't have any qa it was, it was me and my friends were playing, I said it to, you know, a couple of friends said, hey, do you like this? Um, but I would hesitate to say anyone was like a qa on it, you know. And so, as the comments filled up on uh, itchio, or if I got a message back, I'd jump in and fix it. And because of how that works, I just updated the file on there. So it was like, you know, 1.01 or something, uh, and it.

IZMA: 35:53

It got fixed as it went, which is not the best way to do game development, but that's how that happened. But then when it came to a physical release, my God, the amount of stress. But knowing if anything has snuck through it's permanently committed to that PCB, that was pretty bad stress-wise and you had to test everything to the nth degree and make sure it was okay. There was one issue that was in there that got caught by a few people, where if you mashed buttons on the Game Boy and I don't know what the deal was but if you mashed buttons, it would just the character to zero, zero on a random screen and then if they walked off the screen it would walk them to anywhere else and people were getting like 20 second runs of the game.

IZMA: 36:46

Uh, like it was the 12th ending it had broken everything and, uh, there was, there was someone who noticed that bug, and anywhere where my name is, you can quite often find that one person writing about that bug, which, oh no which became its own little joke, I suppose but, um, it didn't look like we were going to be able to fix that. Uh, because it was a site thing. Not to shirk blame, but it was not a program error.

IZMA: 37:19

It was on the engine site and we weren't sure if there was any way to fix it. And then I think it was the week, or even a couple of days before it was due to go out. The amazing, amazing, cannot thank him enough. Chris Maltby, who created the GVCDR engine, had a fix and fixed it. I thought we were going to have to ship it with that error in it, so that was a relief and I think the game's pretty clear now. So it's definitely stressful. I think that's a long way of saying it's definitely stressful. I think that's a long way of saying um.

IZMA: 37:56

And whilst I'm on the point, I think you know from the bottom of my heart and everyone else in the scene right now, we owe like a massive debt to chris uh, chris, for making this thing. You know, I I tweeted him last week saying he's a madman for doing so much for everyone for so little. You know, um, I I certainly wouldn't. No one would know who I was if I hadn't made a thing with his engine. You know, um I I certainly wouldn't. No one would know who I was if I hadn't made a thing with his engine. You know, um, and I think it's really important to call that out. You know um. I owe everything to chris mulvey, so that's very cool.

Alex: 38:25

I mean it's it's one of those things. It's like he, you know, gave a lot of folks the keys, almost as you know, to be able to be able to drive, and it's like that's what I love is, as playing these things is like just seeing, you know, when I, when I had the chance to talk to marco, like seeing how much of himself he put in there and even talking to you and learning more about you, is like the amount of you know, your passions that ended up in this game. So, as you take this, uh, you know, like you were given the keys and you and you, basically, you know, interjected all these cool things, like all you know I mentioned earlier, like the horror inspiration, but then like your illustrative work and all that it's it's honestly dude, like this game has probably got the coolest like actual cart artwork out of any of the games I have.

Alex: 39:05

Like the back of the pcb's got like some really cool, like it's like guts or whatever, and it's like it's just rad, it's cool, it's like, and it's um, you know, it's really fun to see and, as I like a collector and a gamer, it's like, uh, it's a fun, it's a fun piece to have, it's a fun piece to play yeah, I also appreciate it yeah, yeah, of course, dude and I, I also want to bring up too, like, uh, I'll joke often, like I fall into this trope of like I'm I'll.

Alex: 39:28

Whenever I'm doing a playing a game, like I, I end up taking the honorable route most of the time, like if I'm like red dead redemption 2 or whatever, like my, my meters all the way to like you know the the good side or whatever, versus like the evil side, uh, or if I'm given choices in a game, like I'll, often, you know, just by nature of who I am, I'm like, oh, I gotta do the good thing and what I thought was really interesting I don't want to give away.

Alex: 39:50

You know there's 11 endings that's pretty well known of your game and I don't want to give away any of this because that's like part of the adventure, is is exploring that and I want folks to play this. But I, I want to bring up the fact that many of the endings that you know that you made pushed me as a gamer to be like okay, let's, let's test, see where I can go with this, and like and like there is definitely, I would say, a more honorable path. But uh, you know, when I got that one. I was like all right, interesting, like what else can we do? And it like pushes you to do some different things. So kudos to you for for getting really creative and and I would say I'm trying to skirt around like, uh, spoilers, but um, you know, pushing and that's, that's part of the horror tropes, right? So if you, it's almost like and I don't want to speak for you, but I, I I would say that, as consuming this piece of content, I felt like you leaned into a lot of really good horror tropes that you kind of invite the, the player, to take part in.

Alex: 40:43

Does that, does that register with you? Does that make sense?

IZMA: 40:45

yeah, I think so, uh, to, to just take a step back, uh, on that. The one of the key thinking points on it was I wanted to create the space and then let the player pick what they wanted to do. And that was the thinking. With a lot of it I was like, well, what if they do this? And I wanted something to happen. It's still a Game Boy game. You can't do absolutely anything in the world. But a point of contention, right and hey, just to bring it back to resident evil as well. Everyone's always like, well, why don't they just leave the house? And I said, okay, okay, but there wouldn't be a game. But in the game you can just leave the village. Because they say, well, why wouldn't they just leave the village? And some people get really upset that you can do that. And I'm like, well, that's I wanted it to be, that you could do whatever you wanted to do. And that was that initial thinking of, hey, design around what they might do and make it cool in that way.

Alex: 41:43

There's some games where you go around and I'll poke everything where it's like. I'll go to every bookcase and see if it has something to say or whatever. But I think what's interesting about this game is that there's a bit of that. But I feel like the way that you developed it, you invited people to poke every NPC and to see what you can maybe do with them, and I think that's something that elevates it, because there's some stuff that you can do with some of the different characters that will branch off into some of the different endings.

IZMA: 42:18

It's like wow, like right on, you know. So there's a few things like I'm pretty proud of. In that regard of like um, I really love the film and it was pretty popular a while back. But the original film, battle royale, the japanese film.

IZMA: 42:29

I haven't seen that one, but oh so good, uh, and almost directly responsible for that genre okay, yeah but, uh, a cool thing I like about that film is, even though some of it's just for a little bit, you have a moment with every character.

IZMA: 42:45

And there's a lot of characters, you know, but you see something to do with every single one of them and I watched it again recently and you really do. It's something that the sequel kind of loses, but in Darius, one way or another, you're going to talk to absolutely everyone you know and I'm kind of proud of that as a little point, you know it. It sort of forces you to know these little people who don't really even have faces, but you know who they are and where they are and how to find them, and I'm proud that that worked out as well as I'd hoped that it would. But another thing that I really like is it's full of moments that almost like a slap to the face when you realize what's actually going on. One of my favorite moments I saw there was a Spanish streamer played it speaking entirely in Spanish and I can't speak Spanish so I couldn't understand what he was saying. Uh, he was like live streaming on twitch.

IZMA: 43:36

I was watching and he was hitting some of those moments right and despite the language barrier, you could see that it had shocked him and I was like, oh, it worked. And it's little things like, uh, figuring out and entering certain rooms in the game when people, people, work out how to get there. I've seen a few people play in it where they'll just pause for a minute and be like, oh, that actually worked. Oh, my god, I'm really pleased that those certain moments hit as much as I wanted them to hit. I will say, to be fair to it, there are as many that don't hit as I had hoped they'd hit, like the very good ending sitting on the mountain. I think if that had, if I was a filmmaker rather than a Game Boy creator, you could give that the beats and the weight that it has in my head that it doesn't have Sure, so sure.

IZMA: 44:35

It was a very, a very common thing of when people buy into them, going oh, that's the ending, and they're incredibly valid to say that you know, of course. And it. To me it's just a sign that it didn't quite catch as it does in my head.

Alex: 44:49

So so my limitations of the hardware, I suppose stuff to learn for the next one.

Alex: 44:53

You know, uh, but you know the two extremes of that problem, uh, like the most rewarding, I think totally tell me a little bit about um, your path, because I mean, you know, there's obviously the, the initial success of you know having it out on itch, uh, getting out there so people can play digitally. And then, when you you know, there's the physical cartridge. But I think what's really cool about your game, in particular when I look around this, this scene, is that there's been additional, like um, the special releases where it's like you have not just the, you can get, you know the, and it has so much additional of um, of like pieces of your artwork, whether it's stickers, etc. I'm just curious a little bit how you went down that path to having some of these special editions and some of the work that you put into them.

IZMA: 45:41

Yeah, it's been an interesting long journey up to this point, ups and downs, left and right. It feels like when I first put it out, I say never had any intention of of a physical release and I didn't even know how to address that if nothing could happen. And uh, a publisher reached out to me, you know, a couple of months in and was asking for all these things that at that time I couldn't do.

IZMA: 46:14

You know, gb studio couldn't do at the time either. And I was lucky to be working with a uh, an ex-member of vicarious visions, someone who'd worked on the gba ports of tony hawks games and stuff oh cool, someone who really knows the ins and outs of programming not using a visual script, programming for the game boy and he couldn't work out what this publisher was asking me to do. Oh, interesting, you know that ended up going south because I was like I can't hit what you're asking me for. And then after that I moved back to the UK because I was living in the US at the time and I Spacebot, who's another Gb Studio developer. He reached out to me and he was like hey, why don't we do this physically? And he wasn't, you know, he was publishing games, but he wasn't a publisher, it was just Spacebot. And he said look, here's how we can do it. Do you want to do it? He, I cannot say enough good words about him. You know he's, I still talk to him every day. I cannot say enough good words about him. You know he's, I still talk to him every day. I talked to him just this morning. Nice, I love the guy's pieces and he helped put that first edition together. You know there aren't many of them out there in the world now but the Spacebot edition of the game has a little Spacebot bar on it and it's got some little like, some little unique pieces to it that some people have found and some people haven't. But if you can find a space bot version, that's that's my favorite. So that happened.

IZMA: 47:38

And then the thing of that and I'm sure you wouldn't mind me saying is it, it really really was like a one man and his family operation of he. You know, he folded and glued and assembled those cartridges all himself. I was feeding him the artwork and he was showing me pictures of just all the stuff in his house and there was hundreds of them. So infinite gratitude to that man for doing that. It got to a point where he was like I can't be doing this all myself. And that's where Incubator came in, which was the current publisher, and we did the standard edition, which is the same cover art just with the Incubate banner on the side. There is a special edition with the alternate art which I commissioned one of my favorite artists for years and years and years. An artist who goes under the name Witness the Absurd, who has just released Slave Zero zero x, a cool new indie game, um. So that was cool to get to, to work with them, uh.

IZMA: 48:41

And then there was the big collector's box which has the uh, you know, the art book and music and all that in it. Um, we got to do another release of the music, um, which the amazing stew buzz, to be one of my best friends on the planet, did all the music. And we got to do a cd release of that collector's edition, um, which was very cool. Uh, yeah, it's sort of like all almost come. Naturally, it feels like, uh, you know, these things seem to find me somehow and, uh, it's, uh, just a case of making it as cool as we can, you know I love that totally.

Alex: 49:18

That's that's. That's a lot of fun to hear it. I think it's um, you know, as an observer, it's really easy to just assume that, uh, you know that that journey wouldn't be as as personal as you described. You know, like that, you like, okay, like I, I didn't, I didn't know. I I've followed a little bit of incubate, um, not incubate well, incubate as well, but space bots, you know his his journey a little bit.

Alex: 49:40

I did miss out on that first release, so I won't be able to look at my shelf and see what you're talking about. But but now I'm very curious. Uh, I do remember, though, like when that came out I was just a little slow on, you know, I think I was. It was around the time when I was like more into my collecting journey. I just fell back into collecting a little bit, but it was one I just missed out on. And then I was happy when I was able to get a physical version from Incubate.

Alex: 50:02

But it's cool to hear that very personal journey. And then I read and heard about the collaborations you did with your buddy to be able to make the music, and it's just like, and that sounds kind of cheesy, but it's definitely an instance where you're an indie dev, it's a solo project, but it, you know, it still took. It still took your village man. It's like it's kind of fun to hear that, as opposed to being like, oh, I don't know, I just had this idea and you know, the suits came and they bought it from me and told me this is is what we're doing, so that's cool.

IZMA: 50:35

One of my favorite stories of it. I've told this before but I'll tell it again. Stu Busby is a machine, the composer for the game. I used to be in a band with him in my teenage years, back when I had hair. When I was doing that game jam, I reached out to him and I was like hey, I'm doing this thing, Do you think you could do music? Can you help me out with the music? And he made these six incredible tracks for the game, but they were made in a file format that couldn't be used in GV Studio, Because back then it's different and I've got to be honest, I don't understand all the ins and outs of the music side, but there was some specific way of setting it all up.

IZMA: 51:25

I was frantically doing my side of the game jam. It was becoming more and more apparent that those six tracks that Stu had made, he was like I don't know if this is going to work. I don't think this is going to translate, I might not be able to do it. I was like that's fine, man, this is all for fun, which again it was. At the time I was like don't worry about it, I really appreciate it. You've made six amazing tracks here. I appreciate that it got down to the deadline. He went hey, how about this? He sent 20 tracks perfectly in the format, and all of you know there's there's a ton of music in the game and it's all here, right, and uh, you just told me you couldn't do six and there's more than double that of this incredible music and he's like I can't do six, but I can do 20 and that's that's stew to a t.

IZMA: 52:11

The man is amazing. I I don't have enough good words and I just love that story. Perfect sort of example of him. I'm really grateful as well that we did a cassette release with Spacebot and we did a CD release with Incubate, and those tracks are on. I think they're on both of those formats, so nothing went to waste.

Alex: 52:28

Oh, very cool.

IZMA: 52:30

Yeah, that's one of my favorite bits of working on it.

Alex: 52:39

Whatever I work on next, I hope that it gets steve involved, because I love him. Is there anything that you got cooking? Is there any? Do you have any ideas whether that's uh, you know, uh, that he is two, or something else like what are you playing around with these days?

IZMA: 52:46

so that is two. Currently is on the back burner, although it's it's. Everything's been written down and planned. When it's when it's time to hit, to hit that. I'm ready to go on it. Right now I haven't talked about it too much because I was keeping it kind of quiet, but I'm working on a new Game Boy Color game and I think it's going to be exclusive to the Game Boy Color called.

IZMA: 53:05

Ceramica. It's going to be another horror game, but we're going for body horror and slasher like 80s on this. I think there was a massive influx of horror now on the game boy, but it's a lot of psychological horror. There's not a lot of straight up video nasty 80s blood and guts and I'd love to see if I can hit that. You know to be the next thing of like, hey, let's push this down the line, you know.

Alex: 53:34

Yeah, I'd love to see if I can hit that you know to be the next thing of like, hey, let's push and start on the line. You know, yeah, I'd love to see it. Man, I know that, um, you know I mentioned earlier in our talk that I've been following you on instagram for a while now. So every once in a while you'll post like uh, because you're I mean, you're not lying dude you're into the horror genre, so you like there's some like videos. Like you posted some like uh, different, like um, you're watching whatever movie and I'm like what is this crazy stuff that he's watching? But, man, I would love to see that translated into your next game. It'd be a lot of fun.

IZMA: 53:58

Well, let's hope it all works out. Right now I am actively developing it. It's what I'm going to do straight off this call.

Alex: 54:06

Oh cool cool.

IZMA: 54:08

In my head I could see this being something really cool. I sent the story off to another developer I'm close friends with this morning and he's the only person who's heard the story and he seemed way into it. So I'm like, oh Very cool.

IZMA: 54:24

I don't often like to share what I'm doing. You know, if I'm honest, I'm embarrassed about my writing. I've never shared any of it before Deadious. But that's another shot in the arm of let's get this done Totally In terms of what the game will look and feel like. Right now I'm playing a ridiculous amount of Mega man Extreme on the Game Boy Color, trying to work out how they've done all of that.

Alex: 54:52

You're a masochist.

IZMA: 54:54

That's going to be the big one, a platformer game. I'm going to try and have it have as much story as Dead Ears did, but with more cutscene art in it.

Alex: 55:04

Very cool.

IZMA: 55:07

I look back at Dead Ears now and it was a fast, Like I said, Game Jam is quite fast made. I think there's a lot more I could do you know like uh, if I went whole hog on the thing and in color.

IZMA: 55:21

Um, so I'm excited. I hope I can do it. Uh, the I was working on the game a little while back. Uh called severin and it kind of it fell apart. The final hurdle and that was was an embarrassing blocker on that, but Ceramica comes directly out of it. Anything I took from that game that did work really well is put straight into this and the things that didn't work have been cut out. It's an organic way of moving forward, like a lateral step and keep going on.

Alex: 55:50

I was excited about it. Yeah, you got me excited. Man Ceramica.

IZMA: 55:56

I hope it works. I've, uh, I've been so like dripping, uh, I'm trying to give it like a you know all the box art, manual art. I think I'm going to try and do digital painting, like hit it in a style I've never really done before and, uh, I hope it's. It seems like it's going to be like a fulfilling thing to to make you know I don't want to take too much more of your time.

Alex: 56:17

I want you to get working on this game. So, but, uh, but thanks so much, adam, you know. Thanks for for joining me today, uh, to talk a little bit about, about your journey, and and for detius, and then also for you know, for you know where you got, where you got cooking, and uh, if you could just quick tell us where listeners can find your game and where to follow you online you find the game for free.

IZMA: 56:38

Uh, hio uh is my hio, I think it is. Um, I'll send you a link to chuck anywhere. Instagram, uh, izma is my handle, uh, and then I'm on pretty much everything else. I am currently trying trying to keep a Patreon going. I'm updating every three days, no matter what I'm working on. I'm keeping a decent log of it. The most recent post I put on there was how I keep on top of my projects and sort of be my own producer on games. So I'm trying to fill it with exactly how I do, what I do or what I've been up to. I'm sort of also working on that. But yeah, if you search Izma I-Z dot M-A, you can find me pretty much anywhere.

Alex: 57:25

Right on. Well, thanks so much, man. Again. Appreciate your time truly, and also for all the love and work you put into this game and super excited to you know follow your journey into the next game it means the world to me to hear that, uh, it really does.

IZMA: 57:41

it means a lot, it really does, thank you, bye. Thanks for watching.